Discussion:
DFS Domain Root question
(too old to reply)
John Smith
2004-11-17 19:27:31 UTC
Permalink
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW link... my
plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site. and then turn the
/insite on so the DFS targets will only be available to the site they are
located in. This seams straight forward to me but the question I have is
this...



Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all the
computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the initial info of
the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local DFT tree in site2 to
keep them from connecting over the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-17 20:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client obtains
a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured period of time.
You could extend this period of time, but the cache is flushed when the
client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second root target so that you
have one in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW link...
my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site. and then
turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available to the site
they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but the question I
have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all the
computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the initial info
of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local DFT tree in site2
to keep them from connecting over the slow link at all? Thanks for any
input...
John Smith
2004-11-17 20:58:16 UTC
Permalink
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never have
connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second root to
site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I don't have to
manually create all the links?



Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links with
the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple root with
the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that correct?



One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth wise
to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second root
target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not need to
leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW link...
my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site. and then
turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available to the site
they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but the question I
have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all
the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the initial
info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local DFT tree in
site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at all? Thanks for
any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-17 23:54:18 UTC
Permalink
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a DC
to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no local DC,
the client will have to contact a remote DC for this referral. Clients will
also cache this referral, and you extend how long the root referral is
cached.

Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for you to
enable replication for this to happen.

Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a big org
does this.

You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give you
an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second
root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I
don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second root
target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not need to
leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site.
and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available
to the site they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but
the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all
the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the initial
info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local DFT tree in
site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at all? Thanks for
any input...
John Smith
2004-11-18 01:08:39 UTC
Permalink
yes there are DCs at both site...

I see you said I can add a root target, does that mean I just add another
root server in without redoing all the links and data in site2? If so that
would be perfict, I thought I would have to make a new root by hand...
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a DC
to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no local DC,
the client will have to contact a remote DC for this referral. Clients
will also cache this referral, and you extend how long the root referral
is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for you
to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a big
org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give you
an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second
root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I
don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second
root target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not need
to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site.
and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available
to the site they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but
the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all
the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the initial
info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local DFT tree in
site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at all? Thanks
for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-18 16:43:49 UTC
Permalink
When you add the second root target, the namespace structure is created on
the second server. However, this does not replicate any user data that is
stored in link targets. To do that, you can use FRS or some other
replication tool, like Robocopy.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes there are DCs at both site...
I see you said I can add a root target, does that mean I just add another
root server in without redoing all the links and data in site2? If so that
would be perfict, I thought I would have to make a new root by hand...
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a
DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no local
DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC for this referral.
Clients will also cache this referral, and you extend how long the root
referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for you
to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a big
org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give
you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second
root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I
don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second
root target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not
need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site.
and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available
to the site they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but
the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all
the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the
initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local
DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at
all? Thanks for any input...
John Smith
2004-11-18 01:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if I make
a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects to
\\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and not make a
connection back down to site1? If that is the case then I'm set..

thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a DC
to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no local DC,
the client will have to contact a remote DC for this referral. Clients
will also cache this referral, and you extend how long the root referral
is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for you
to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a big
org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give you
an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second
root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I
don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second
root target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not need
to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site.
and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available
to the site they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but
the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all
the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the initial
info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local DFT tree in
site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at all? Thanks
for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-18 16:45:34 UTC
Permalink
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to add
another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm misunderstanding
what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root
Target"..

But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain controller, the
client will contact the local DC to obtain a root referral, and the root
server in the client's site will be listed first. The client will pick that
root server, request a link referral, and access the link target in its own
site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if I
make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects to
\\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and not make
a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a
DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no local
DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC for this referral.
Clients will also cache this referral, and you extend how long the root
referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for you
to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a big
org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give
you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second
root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I
don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second
root target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not
need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site.
and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be available
to the site they are located in. This seams straight forward to me but
the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will all
the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the
initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local
DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at
all? Thanks for any input...
John Smith
2004-11-18 17:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant "did" not
didn't :)



So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here



Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.



Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this will
replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets with the
data from the step above.



I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only see
the shares that are in there local sites.



Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will contact
DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets that were setup
in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at all correct? And
when users from Site1 connects to the same \\domain.local\share they will be
connected to DC1 and shares in site1.



Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer. DFS and
FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to add
another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm misunderstanding
what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root
Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain controller,
the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root referral, and the
root server in the client's site will be listed first. The client will
pick that root server, request a link referral, and access the link target
in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if I
make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects to
\\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and not make
a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a
DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no local
DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC for this referral.
Clients will also cache this referral, and you extend how long the root
referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for you
to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a big
org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give
you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a second
root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root site so I
don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain a
referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the client
obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the configured
period of time. You could extend this period of time, but the cache is
flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can add a second
root target so that you have one in each site, and clients will not
need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each site.
and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be
available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will
all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the
initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local
DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at
all? Thanks for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-18 21:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like a plan!

Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate AD
sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a client
is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant "did"
not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this will
replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets with the
data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets that
were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at all
correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer. DFS
and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't
see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain controller,
the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root referral, and the
root server in the client's site will be listed first. The client will
pick that root server, request a link referral, and access the link
target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if I
make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects to
\\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and not
make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact a
DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no
local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC for this
referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you extend how
long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give
you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to never
have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add a
second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root
site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the links
with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a simple
root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is that
correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable bandwidth
wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get the DFS root
tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain
a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the
client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the
configured period of time. You could extend this period of time, but
the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can
add a second root target so that you have one in each site, and
clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be
available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will
all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the
initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local
DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link at
all? Thanks for any input...
John Smith
2004-11-18 21:28:23 UTC
Permalink
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230 as
it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64 not x86
which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said that yes they
only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is there any way I can
get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember reading somewhere
that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting these up I thought it
would be good


From the email I got....

Package:
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate AD
sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant "did"
not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this will
replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets with the
data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets that
were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at all
correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer. DFS
and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't
see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain controller,
the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root referral, and the
root server in the client's site will be listed first. The client will
pick that root server, request a link referral, and access the link
target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if I
make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects to
\\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and not
make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact
a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no
local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC for this
referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you extend how
long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will give
you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add
a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the root
site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have a
simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's site. Is
that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to obtain
a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once the
client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for the
configured period of time. You could extend this period of time, but
the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted. Optionally you can
add a second root target so that you have one in each site, and
clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be
available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will
all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get the
initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another local
DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow link
at all? Thanks for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-18 21:50:45 UTC
Permalink
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no idea
why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look at the
KB article (at the bottom of the following link:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows the
x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them back,
but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to see if he
has heard anything, but this is news to me!

If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.

(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.

(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.

(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS) planning
recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."

(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a list
here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230 as
it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64 not
x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said that yes
they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is there any way I
can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember reading
somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting these up I
thought it would be good
From the email I got....
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate AD
sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant "did"
not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets that
were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at all
correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer. DFS
and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't
see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain controller,
the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root referral, and the
root server in the client's site will be listed first. The client will
pick that root server, request a link referral, and access the link
target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if I
make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects to
\\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and not
make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients contact
a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if there is no
local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC for this
referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you extend how
long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will
give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes
for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to add
a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate the
root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have
a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's site.
Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once
the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for
the configured period of time. You could extend this period of
time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one in
each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only be
available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1 will
all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to get
the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make another
local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over the slow
link at all? Thanks for any input...
John Smith
2004-11-19 18:57:00 UTC
Permalink
super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?



One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it can
only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to replicate is
51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did have another
200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to replicate as
well, but I guess I can't do that.

The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no idea
why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
list here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is there
any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember
reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting
these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at
all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link referral,
and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will
give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes
for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have
a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's site.
Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once
the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for
the configured period of time. You could extend this period of
time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only
be available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over
the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-22 17:17:43 UTC
Permalink
And one more thing--we're investigating why the hotfix isn't available
through PSS. Stay tuned...
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?
One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it
can only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to
replicate is 51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did
have another 200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to
replicate as well, but I guess I can't do that.
The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no
idea why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
list here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is
there any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I
remember reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just
setting these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users
only see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1
at all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option
to add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link
referral, and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures
(link folders) are created on the second root server. There is no
need for you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how
a big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the
DFS Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This
will give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server
processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just
have a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's
site. Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites.
Once the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it
for the configured period of time. You could extend this period
of time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a
SLOW link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in
each site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will
only be available to the site they are located in. This seams
straight forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting
over the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
2004-11-22 17:16:49 UTC
Permalink
We *always* recommend running the latest FRS hotfix on all production
servers. :-) This is one of our best practices.

The KB I provided contains our recommendations, but these are not hard-coded
limits. FRS can handle more, but these recommendations ensure that you will
have reliable performance (if you follow our best practices) and easier
recovery.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?
One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it
can only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to
replicate is 51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did
have another 200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to
replicate as well, but I guess I can't do that.
The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no
idea why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
list here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is
there any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I
remember reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just
setting these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users
only see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1
at all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option
to add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link
referral, and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures
(link folders) are created on the second root server. There is no
need for you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how
a big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the
DFS Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This
will give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server
processes for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just
have a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's
site. Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites.
Once the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it
for the configured period of time. You could extend this period
of time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a
SLOW link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in
each site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will
only be available to the site they are located in. This seams
straight forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting
over the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
Richard Chinn [MSFT]
2004-11-23 20:15:07 UTC
Permalink
First, let me state clearly that I am *not* recommending that you go
beyond FRS test limits. You should be aware of a few things regarding
those limits.

1) FRS is fairly sensitive to the number of files and folders. Going
far beyond the recommended limit will generally cause a lot of pain.
When the limits are exceeded, it is possible for FRS to get into a
state where it's replicating fine, but should you ever need to perform
disaster recovery, it's impossible to bring it back.

If you decide to go beyond the scalability test limits, you must fully
test disaster recovery procedures to ensure they work properly.

2) The amount of data FRS has is an important factor mainly because
FRS replicates entire files. If you have a 500 MB file and make a
single 1 byte change to the file, FRS will replicate the entire 500 MB
file. "Accidents" where lots of files get touched with effectively no
changes cause a flurry of replication activity and all you can do is
to wait for things to settle down. Over slow links, this is even more
painful.

Replicating entire files can cause problems if your connection
schedules are too short. FRS doesn't resume a file download from a
partner if the connection gets cut. This means that if you have large
files that are in the middle of replication, and the connection
schedule closes, that file download will fail. The download will be
retried when the connection opens again, but it will start from the
beginning. Obviously if you are transferring the last few KB of a 500
MB file, this will not be good.

--Richard

Please post FRS related questions to
microsoft.public.windows.server.dfs_frs and prefix the subject line
with "FRS:" to make it easier to spot. Note that FRS is used to
replicate SYSVOL on domain controllers and DFS root and link targets.

For additional FRS resources, please visit
http://www.microsoft.com/frs.

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
Post by John Smith
super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?
One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it can
only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to replicate is
51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did have another
200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to replicate as
well, but I guess I can't do that.
The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no idea
why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
list here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is there
any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember
reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting
these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at
all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link referral,
and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will
give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes
for DFS.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have
a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's site.
Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once
the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for
the configured period of time. You could extend this period of
time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only
be available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over
the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
John Smith
2004-11-23 21:43:20 UTC
Permalink
very helpful info thank you so much.. I think I will find another way to
copy the larger files... Also didn't know about the files cutting off like
that I thought they would resume but that's helpful info that I haven't seen
in any of the docs...
Post by Richard Chinn [MSFT]
First, let me state clearly that I am *not* recommending that you go
beyond FRS test limits. You should be aware of a few things regarding
those limits.
1) FRS is fairly sensitive to the number of files and folders. Going
far beyond the recommended limit will generally cause a lot of pain.
When the limits are exceeded, it is possible for FRS to get into a
state where it's replicating fine, but should you ever need to perform
disaster recovery, it's impossible to bring it back.
If you decide to go beyond the scalability test limits, you must fully
test disaster recovery procedures to ensure they work properly.
2) The amount of data FRS has is an important factor mainly because
FRS replicates entire files. If you have a 500 MB file and make a
single 1 byte change to the file, FRS will replicate the entire 500 MB
file. "Accidents" where lots of files get touched with effectively no
changes cause a flurry of replication activity and all you can do is
to wait for things to settle down. Over slow links, this is even more
painful.
Replicating entire files can cause problems if your connection
schedules are too short. FRS doesn't resume a file download from a
partner if the connection gets cut. This means that if you have large
files that are in the middle of replication, and the connection
schedule closes, that file download will fail. The download will be
retried when the connection opens again, but it will start from the
beginning. Obviously if you are transferring the last few KB of a 500
MB file, this will not be good.
--Richard
Please post FRS related questions to
microsoft.public.windows.server.dfs_frs and prefix the subject line
with "FRS:" to make it easier to spot. Note that FRS is used to
replicate SYSVOL on domain controllers and DFS root and link targets.
For additional FRS resources, please visit
http://www.microsoft.com/frs.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
super good links thanks so much... will read them all. I will try and call
PSS back, but before I do, do you recommend this hotfix for production
servers? Like is it worth getting?
One thing on the amount of data FRS can replicate I'm surprised that it can
only do 64Gigs of data... I checked and the main data I need to replicate is
51Gigs and about 100,000 files so I should be ok, but I did have another
200Gigs or so of large files (500+megs) that I would like to replicate as
well, but I guess I can't do that.
The main thing I like about FRS is that you can schedule a start and stop
point that most of the other syncing programs can't do. Like if I set that
replication starts at 1AM and stops at 7AM even if there is more to
replicate it will stop, this is very useful when you're dealing with large
files over slow links, but I guess if I can't go over 64Gigs then I will
have to find another way to do it.
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
PSS must be mistaken--823230 is a valid FRS hotfix for x86. I have no idea
why they would said it applies only to 64-bit platforms. If you look at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;823230) it shows
the x86 platforms. I hate to put you through the trouble of calling them
back, but they've got to be mistaken. I'll check with my PSS contact to
see if he has heard anything, but this is news to me!
If you're going be using FRS, you'll have another set of design
recommendations to consider.
(1) Make sure the amount of data you plan to replicate falls below our
recommendations at
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;840675.
(2) Check out our free FRS monitoring tools on
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/fileandprint/file/dfs/tshootfrs.mspx. I
recommend using Ultrasound along with its accompanying Help file, which
contains best practices and important stuff to consider.
(3) If you don't mind doing some reading, review the FRS (and DFS)
planning recommendations in the Designing and Deploying File Servers
chapter at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2003/all/deployguide/en-us/SDCCC_FSV_OVERVIEW.asp.
The sections you want are called "Designing DFS Namespaces" and "Planning
File Server Availability."
(4) Make sure your antivirus software is compatible with FRS. We have a
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;815263
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
yes I have 2 sites so all should be good... I thank you again for your
excellent help. One more quick thing I called PSS for the hotfix 823230
as it seams to be recommended, but they said they only have it for ia64
not x86 which is odd no? I asked them if they were sure and they said
that yes they only had it for 64bit systems... is that the case? Is there
any way I can get the x86 hotfix? or should I not bother... I remember
reading somewhere that it was recommended. And since I'm just setting
these up I thought it would be good
From the email I got....
-----------------------------------------------------------
KB Article Number(s): 823230
Language: English
Platform: ia64
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Sounds like a plan!
Also, just to make sure we've covered all the bases, you have separate
AD sites set up, correct? That's how DFS knows what site a target and a
client is in. Sorry if this sounds elementary :-)
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Thanks so much for your help... I'm sorry I mistyped that, I meant
"did" not didn't :)
So just to reiterate what I'm going to do here
Step 1: On DC1 in Site1 I'm going to setup a DFS root, add links with
targets in site1 and site2 which will replicate the data to both sites.
Step 2: On DC1 I will add a new "Root Target" for DC2 in site2, this
will replicate the root to site2, whish will also have local targets
with the data from the step above.
I will use the /insite command as listed in the docs so that users only
see the shares that are in there local sites.
Now when a user is site2 connects to \\domain.local\share they will
contact DC2 for the DFS tree, and will connect to the site2 targets
that were setup in step1, they will not connect to anything in site1 at
all correct? And when users from Site1 connects to the same
\\domain.local\share they will be connected to DC1 and shares in site1.
Thanks for your help again things I think are becoming much clearer.
DFS and FRS rock :)
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
When you right-click a domain-based root, there should be an option to
add another target. Are you not seeing the option? Maybe I'm
misunderstanding what you mean by "Ok I just looked at DFS and I
didn't see that "New Root Target"..
But yes, if there is a local root target and a local domain
controller, the client will contact the local DC to obtain a root
referral, and the root server in the client's site will be listed
first. The client will pick that root server, request a link referral,
and access the link target in its own site.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Post by John Smith
Ok I just looked at DFS and I didn't see that "New Root Target".. if
I make a New root target at site2 when a computer in site2 connects
to \\domain.local\share will it connect to the "Root" in site2, and
not make a connection back down to site1? If that is the case then
I'm set..
thanks
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Is there a DC in both sites? The reason I ask is that clients
contact a DC to request a referral to a domain-based root, so if
there is no local DC, the client will have to contact a remote DC
for this referral. Clients will also cache this referral, and you
extend how long the root referral is cached.
Also, once you add a root target, the necessary DFS structures (link
folders) are created on the second root server. There is no need for
you to enable replication for this to happen.
Let me do some research to see if I can give you an example of how a
big org does this.
You might also want to check out the "How DFS Works" link in the DFS
Technical Reference available on www.microsoft.com/dfs. This will
give you an in-depth explanation of all the client/server processes
for DFS.
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Post by John Smith
ok so if I understand this correctly if I want users of site2 to
never have connect to the "Root server" in site1 I would need to
add a second root to site2... now is there a way I can replicate
the root site so I don't have to manually create all the links?
Also if I did have to do this manually then site1 would have the
links with the 2 targets for replication, and site2 would just have
a simple root with the one target pointing the target in it's site.
Is that correct?
One last question, how do big orgs do this? Is it acceptable
bandwidth wise to have remote sites connect over slow links to get
the DFS root tree?
Post by Jill Zoeller [MSFT]
Clients in both sites will need to contact the root server to
obtain a referral to the link target in their relative sites. Once
the client obtains a root referral, the client will cache it for
the configured period of time. You could extend this period of
time, but the cache is flushed when the client is rebooted.
Optionally you can add a second root target so that you have one
in each site, and clients will not need to leave their site.
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This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Post by John Smith
I'm setting up win2003 DFS and I have 2 sites connected by a SLOW
link... my plan is to have 2 targets for each link, one in each
site. and then turn the /insite on so the DFS targets will only
be available to the site they are located in. This seams straight
forward to me but the question I have is this...
Do I only make 1 DFS root, and then connect all the clients to
\\domain.local\share in both sites? If I set this up on site1
will all the computers in site2 then have to connect to site1 to
get the initial info of the domain tree? Or do I have to make
another local DFT tree in site2 to keep them from connecting over
the slow link at all? Thanks for any input...
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